From foo@bar Sat Jan 29 00:00:00 2000 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:10:09 -0500 From: hce@ottawa.com (Howard Eisenberger) To: arachne@arachne.cz Subject: Re: SLIP/PPP? On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:55:05 +0700 (JAVT), "Eko Priono" wrote in part: [snip] > When I using CUTCP FTP or Telnet (included in arachne), it's BOOTP > always works *both* with PPPD.EXE and EPPPD.EXE, the only difference > is the BOOTP data received. > > Do you think It's possible that some ISP only support class 1 BOOTP, > and some other support *both* class 1 and class 6 BOOTP ? Good point. I did some testing and here's what I came up with so far. Will play around with config.tel (NCSA Telnet) tomorrow. - ----------------------------------------------------------- ISP #1 : output of tcpinfo.exe (no wattcp.cfg) - using PPPD - ----------------------------------------------------------- Protocol : SLIP IP Address : 0.0.0.0 Network Mask : 255.255.254.0 Gateways : NONE Cookieserver : NONE DEFINED Nameserver : NONE DEFINED Domain : "(null)" BOOTP : USED : FAILED BOOTP Server : BROADCAST BOOTP Timeout : 30 seconds Default Timeout : 30 seconds Max Seg Size MSS : 1400 bytes tcp_Socket : 4214 bytes udp_Socket : 2103 bytes - ------------------------------------------------------------ ISP #1 : output of tcpinfo.exe (no wattcp.cfg) - using EPPPD - ------------------------------------------------------------ Ethernet Address : 0:2:12:0:56:34 IP Address : 206.191.5.60 Network Mask : 252.0.0.0 Gateways : GATEWAY'S IP SUBNET SUBNET MASK : 204.191.36.88 DEFAULT Cookieserver : NONE DEFINED Nameserver : NONE DEFINED Domain : "(null)" BOOTP : USED : SUCCEEDED BOOTP Server : BROADCAST BOOTP Timeout : 30 seconds Default... - --------------------------------------------- ISP #1 : ip-up.bat using either PPPD or EPPPD - --------------------------------------------- set myip=206.191.5.60 set remip=204.191.36.88 set netmask=252.0.0.0 set peermru=1500 - ----------------------------------------------------------- ISP #2 : output of tcpinfo.exe (no wattcp.cfg) - using PPPD - ----------------------------------------------------------- Protocol : SLIP IP Address : 134.117.137.143 Network Mask : 255.255.255.255 Gateways : GATEWAY'S IP SUBNET SUBNET MASK : 134.117.137.11 DEFAULT Cookieserver : NONE DEFINED Nameserver : NONE DEFINED Domain : "(null)" BOOTP : USED : SUCCEEDED BOOTP Server : BROADCAST BOOTP Timeout : 30 seconds Default... - ------------------------------------------------------------ ISP #2 : output of tcpinfo.exe (no wattcp.cfg) - using EPPPD - ------------------------------------------------------------ Ethernet Address : 0:2:12:0:56:34 IP Address : 134.117.137.143 Network Mask : 255.255.0.0 Gateways : GATEWAY'S IP SUBNET SUBNET MASK : 134.117.137.11 DEFAULT Cookieserver : NONE DEFINED Nameserver : NONE DEFINED Domain : "(null)" BOOTP : USED : SUCCEEDED BOOTP Server : BROADCAST BOOTP Timeout : 30 seconds Default... - --------------------------------------------- ISP #2 : ip-up.bat using either PPPD or EPPPD - --------------------------------------------- set myip=134.117.137.143 set remip=134.117.137.11 set netmask=255.255.0.0 set peermru=1500 - -- Howard Eisenberger Ottawa, Canada ------------------------------ From foo@bar Sat Jan 29 00:00:00 2000 Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:26:03 +0700 From: Edwin Pratomo To: arachne@arachne.cz Subject: Re: SLIP/PPP? Howard Eisenberger wrote: > > Good point. I did some testing and here's what I came up with so > far. Will play around with config.tel (NCSA Telnet) tomorrow. > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > ISP #1 : output of tcpinfo.exe (no wattcp.cfg) - using PPPD > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Protocol : SLIP > IP Address : 0.0.0.0 > Network Mask : 255.255.254.0 > .......... Hi Eko and Howard! Seems that Eko's ISP is running BOOTP over SLIP/PPP... :-O I've never suspected this.. AFAIK, BOOTP is usually implemented to enable diskless workstation to get network info, dynamically, but not on dial up phone line. What is the purpose of running BOOTP over SLIP/PPP? By the completion of PPP negotiation phase, the client gets the essential net info, and by executing IP-UP.BAT, the info is already in the _memory_. So any apps that need this info can merely read the environment variables set, they don't need to send bootp request to remote peer, and waiting for the replies, because the info is already in the system! I've just tried TCPINFO.EXE, u might have guess the correct result, here it is: IndosatNet with PPPD.EXE : Protocol : SLIP IP Address : 0.0.0.0 Network Mask : 255.255.254.0 Gateways : NONE Cookieserver : NONE DEFINED Nameserver : NONE DEFINED Domain : "(null)" BOOTP : USED : FAILED BOOTP Server : BROADCAST BOOTP Timeout : 30 seconds - -- Best Regards, Edwin Pratomo ------------------------------ From foo@bar Sat Jan 29 00:00:00 2000 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:55:20 +0700 (JAVT) From: "Eko Priono" To: arachne@arachne.cz Subject: Re: SLIP/PPP? On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 04:22:12 -0500, hce@ottawa.com (Howard Eisenberger) wrote: >> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:12:51 +0700 (JAVT) >> From: "Eko Priono" >> On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:26:03 +0700, Edwin Pratomo wrote: >>> What is the purpose of running BOOTP over SLIP/PPP? >> Well, for the customer's sanity of course... :-) >> With BOOTP capability, no more confusing and difficult setup, >> nor manual tweakings neccessary after you log in. You just put >> this in ARACHNE.CFG: >> .. >> [tcp/ip] >> IP_address BOOTP >> .. >> Then everything filled-up automaticly: my_IP, gateway, netmask, >> DNS, etc. ... Easy peasy setup! :) > While this works well for Arachne and other Wattcp apps (DNS - > are you sure?), I never found things quite so simple for the > NCSA (config.tel) apps. With these, all I could get from BOOTP > was my_ip. In fact, I'm very sure now. :) Finally I got a copy of TCPINFO.EXE, thanks to Jeffrey. This result was taken from Wasantara Net, or in short W-Net. Arachne dialer was used to established connection. PPPTCP.CFG was deleted since it's caused connection problem to the proxy. First test using PPPD.EXE as packet driver. BOOTP expected is server side BOOTP as described in Erick Engelke's WATTCP documentation. TCP/IP section in ARACHNE.CFG configured as follows. [tcp/ip] IP_Address BOOTP W-Net with PPPD.EXE. IP-UP.BAT contains: - ------------------------------------------------------------ set myip=172.16.13.186 set remip=172.16.13.162 set netmask=255.255.0.0 set peermru=1500 - ------------------------------------------------------------ W-Net with PPPD.EXE. TCPINFO.EXE result (without WATTCP.CFG): - ------------------------------------------------------------ Protocol : SLIP IP Address : 172.16.13.186 Network Mask : 0.0.0.0 <---- (1) Gateways : GATEWAY'S IP SUBNET SUBNET MASK : 172.16.13.162 DEFAULT Cookieserver : NONE DEFINED Nameservers : 202.159.65.166 : 202.159.65.171 Domain : "(null)" BOOTP : USED : SUCCEEDED BOOTP Server : BROADCAST BOOTP Timeout : 30 seconds Default Timeout : 30 seconds Max Seg Size MSS : 1400 bytes tcp_Socket : 4214 bytes udp_Socket : 2103 bytes - ------------------------------------------------------------ As you noted at (1), netmask is zeroed. I don't know why, but everything works just fine. Second test using EPPPD.EXE as packet driver. BOOTP expected is BOOTP trapper/emulator built inside EPPPD.EXE. All BOOTP data should be emulated from TCP/IP data taken during PPP link negotiation. TCP/IP section in ARACHNE.CFG configured as follows: [tcp/ip] IP_Address BOOTP NameServer 202.159.65.166 Without NameServer parameter, Arachne 1.20A8 always failed and reported that no DNS found. Seems Arachne also passing this data to EPPPD. W-Net with EPPPD.EXE. IP-UP.BAT contains: - ------------------------------------------------------------ set myip=172.16.13.183 set remip=172.16.13.162 set netmask=255.255.0.0 set peermru=1500 - ------------------------------------------------------------ W-Net with EPPPD.EXE. TCPINFO.EXE result (without WATTCP.CFG): - ------------------------------------------------------------ Ethernet Address : 0:2:12:0:56:34 IP Address : 172.16.13.183 Network Mask : 255.255.0.0 Gateways : GATEWAY'S IP SUBNET SUBNET MASK : 172.16.13.162 DEFAULT Cookieserver : NONE DEFINED Nameserver : 202.159.65.166 Domain : "(null)" BOOTP : USED : SUCCEEDED BOOTP Server : BROADCAST BOOTP Timeout : 30 seconds Default Timeout : 30 seconds Max Seg Size MSS : 1400 bytes tcp_Socket : 4214 bytes udp_Socket : 2103 bytes - ------------------------------------------------------------ - -- Eko Priono mailto: epr@mojokerto.wasantara.net.id ------------------------------ From foo@bar Sat Jan 29 00:00:00 2000 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:14:46 +0700 (JAVT) From: "Eko Priono" To: arachne@arachne.cz Subject: Re: SLIP/PPP?, Re: Alfa 8 was uploaded now. Hi Lars, Edwin, Howard, Generally, BOOTP set up only required if you had dynamic IP account, where IP number and possibly another network info (i.e gateway, netmask, subnet, nameserver, etc.) can vary each time you log-in. For fixed IP accounts, BOOTP set up can be considered as useless, since manual set up can be done easily. As you already know, DOSPPPD package came with two type of packet driver: PPPD.EXE - Class 6 serial line (SLIP) packet driver. EPPPD.EXE - Actually also serial line packet driver, but emulates a class 1 (ethernet) packet driver. For packet driver based internet applications (i.e. Arachne, FTP, Telnet), EPPPD behaves and recognized as a true class1 packet driver. BOOTP requests sent to EPPPD are trapped, instead of being sent to the host server. BOOTP replies sent back are emulated from essential TCP/IP data already in the driver's data space. That's why BOOTP requests sent to EPPPD *always* successful, even the host server actually doesn't support BOOTP. On other hand, PPPD.EXE or all other SLIP/PPP packet driver not supported ethernet emulation (i.e. SLIP, CSLIP), BOOTP requests passed directly to the host server. *If* the host server was configured properly to answer BOOTP, then replies are sent back to your computer, otherwise BOOTP just failed. By using server side BOOTP, internet applications are capable of auto-initializing: all required network info are feeded from the host server. However, server side BOOTP like this usually only supported by LAN based PPP links. For dial up PPP links, server side BOOTP can be considered as quite rare. Some ISP *do* support server side BOOTP for dial up connection. Several TCPINFO results taken from various ISP already posted to this list by Howard Eisenberger , Edwin Pratomo , and myself. You can tell from those results, that server side BOOTP actually works for PPPD.EXE, but *depends* on wheter or not the host server configured properly to answer BOOTP requests. Arachne dialer would load EPPPD.EXE if "Ethernet card emulation" checkbox was selected in DOSPPPD setup screen, otherwise, it load PPPD.EXE. Previous versions of Arachne (before 1.20 alfa 8) doesn't feed name server info to EPPPD. Under this condition, BOOTP result only consists of network info already defined in IP-UP.BAT plus an emulated ethernet signature. That's why name server always returned as *not* defined. As you can see on my TCPINFO result, 1.20 alfa 8 do passed name server info to EPPPD, and failed to connect with error "DNS not found" if name server not already defined in the configuration file. P.S. To M$ haters in this list: Please forgive me for the mailer, my 286 currently under maintenance. I'll be back ASAP with Arachne. - -- Eko Priono mailto: epr@mojokerto.wasantara.net.id personal homepage: http://www.jasapersada.com/epr/ On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:34:42 +0100, "Lars Wigrell" wrote: > On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:24:29 +0100, Michael Polak wrote: >> EPPPD.EXE (checkbox "Ethernet card emulation") support was improved - >> "namsrv" parameter is now passed, so TELNET and FTP should now work >> withou configuring CONFIG.TEL. > That sounds like it can solve another strange thing that I've noticed, > and also mentioned: > When using my "normal" Arachne configuration, I can't get FTP working. > It just keep on saying > Waiting for BOOTP's... > or something similar. > When using the dial program that comes with the DOSPPPD package, and > then starting Arachne in > "connection ready" mode, FTP works just fine. > This is probably not a bug, but maybe something in the configuration > that need to be explainened > or done in a better and/or different way when configuring the DOSPPD > driver from within Arachne. > Any ideas that I can try ? > Regards, > Lars > - -- > Registered user of Arachne, WWW browser for DOS > [http://www.naf.cz/arachne/] > Personal homepage: http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-42172/ > *** Support the shareware concept - Register your software TODAY! *** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From foo@bar Sat Jan 29 00:00:00 2000 Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:57:47 -0500 From: hce@ottawa.com (Howard Eisenberger) To: arachne@arachne.cz Subject: Re: SLIP/PPP?, Re: Alfa 8 was uploaded now. > Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 15:49:49 +0700 > From: Edwin Pratomo > > Eko Priono wrote: >> >> Some ISP *do* support server side BOOTP for dial up connection. > > Exactly! Yes. As we have discovered some do and some don't. Thanks to this discussion, I think I finally understand what I had been doing for so long by trial and error. Not to belabour the point, but would I be correct in saying that server side BOOTP is only a practical concern when using PPPD, while with EPPPD it really doesn't matter? Howard E. hce@ottawa.com