Kickin' Back with Jack Douglas
Johnny Angel, Contributor KNAC.COM
Monday, February 28, 2000 12:52 PM
The legendary rock n' roll producer gives up the inside dope on Aerosmith, GNR, Cheap
Trick, John Lennon and the New York Dolls
If you were to ever look up the definition of the word "crunch" as it relates to
rock music, then I guarantee you that dictionary would have a photograph of Jack Douglas
next to it. The board master behind Aerosmith's greatest records, from Get Your Wings
through Draw The Line, Cheap Trick's debut, John Lennon's last album, Double Fantasy and
most recently Slash's Snakepit's new one, Mr. Douglas has ears for years when it comes to
the big loud sound. And unlike many folks who labor in the trenches behind the scenes,
Douglas doesn't mind telling it like it is and was. We caught up with the master in
Beverly Hills after a meeting he'd had with a new metal act called Sexus who he says
''sound like Nine Inch Nails plus great songs." Here's his story and then some.
KNAC: How did you get hooked up with Aerosmith?
JD: I was the first engineer on the New York Dolls' first record. Todd Rundgren was the
producer, but after three days with those guys, seeing that his vision of harmonies and
pop weren't gonna make it, he basically pissed of and would call me and Jimmy Iovine, who
was my second. He'd call to check up on the progress and didn't return until we had to mix
the disc. I mean, he was into really lush, well-produced, slick bands, and the Dolls were
the Dolls, y'know? I did my best to capture them the way they really were, raw and
street-like. Took two months, pretty much if we could get Jerry Nolan and Arthur Kane
(drums and bassist) to groove at all on any given day, we had something. It was kind of
messy. To this day David JoHansen (Dolls singer) says that he can't recall a moment of
making it, but I remember David's reaction to Todd's singing suggestion: "Hey, I just
yell, that's it, alright?" Finally, Todd shows up and mixes the whole thing in one
day, which is why that record came out like it did. In gratitude, the Dolls mangers gave
me Aerosmith, who were also their clients.
"To this day David JoHansen says that he can't recall a moment of making (the first
album), but I remember David's reaction to Todd Rundgren's singing suggestion: 'Hey, I
just yell, that's it, alright?'"
KNAC: What was your initial impression of Aerosmith?
JD: I saw them at a high school in New England and was blown away-they were noisy and full
of energy like the old Yardbirds. So, we brought them down to the Record Plant in New York
and began Get Your Wings.
KNAC: Rumor has it that Joe Perry and Brad Whitford aren't the only guitarists on that
record-true?
JD: Yes, that is true. Brad wanted to make the guitar parts really technical and neither
he nor Joe were up to that skill level yet, so I brought in Hunter and Wagner, the guys
who'd also ghosted on all the early Alice Cooper discs. Those flashy, brilliant solos in
"Train Kept a Rollin''' and "Same Old Song and Dance" are Hunter/Wagner.
Later, they sat Joe and Brad down and taught them everything they'd done. By the next disc
Toys In The Attic, we didn't need them. Strangely enough, the band wasn't against using
the session guys, especially Steven Tyler. They wanted a hit-they got one.
KNAC: And Rocks was their peak, I think. Why was that record so amazing, in your humble
opinion?
JD: For one thing, we cut all the basics at their rehearsal space, the Wherehouse, in
Boston's suburbs. A big, metal, roaring, huge room. I used stage monitors in with them to
blow the sound right back at them. And that's when they started to stretch out. Joe would
ask what he ought to be listening to and I'd hip him to John Coltrane for solo ideas - and
he'd try to get that! Even in pre-production, I knew it was great. I have cassettes of the
evolution of every song on that record, and you should hear "Back In The Saddle"
as it evolved from Joe's basic lick to the monster it became. Wanna know what the secret
to Rocks was? Distortion. Everything is totally over-loaded. When I brought it to the
record company, they panicked at first, but not for long.
KNAC: They seemed to go right into the dumpster after that disc, though.
JD: Heroin is what did it. They came in with no songs, which was nothing new. They'd bring
seedlings of music and we'd make that into songs. But I couldn't get them all in the same
room anymore. Joe and Steven were smacked out and the "LI3" (''less interesting
3, as Whitford, Hamilton and Kramer referred to themselves) were coke-crazy. All day
they'd be doing anything but music, shooting guns, getting high, whatever. That's why Draw
the Line is the way it is.
KNAC: Around then is when you discovered Cheap Trick?
JD: Yes, at a goddamn bowling alley in Waukeshau, Wisconsin, the Sunset Alleys! I was
visiting my in-laws there, and my brother in law says, '"You have to see this
band." He was so right. I stayed there and flew Tom Werman in from Epic, and they
were signed. We cut 30 tunes and kept nine, my magic number. What I learned from the
Dolls, I applied to Cheap Trick. Keep them the way they are, do all the editing in
pre-production, let them be them.
"Brad (Whitford) wanted to make the guitar parts really technical and neither he nor
Joe (Perry) were up to that skill level yet, so I brought in Hunter and Wagner, the guys
who'd also ghosted on all the early Alice Cooper discs. Those flashy, brilliant solos in
"Train Kept a Rollin''' and "Same Old Song and Dance" are
Hunter/Wagner."
KNAC: Was it you who introduced Cheap Trick to John Lennon?
JD: I was doing Lennon's record while the Beatles producer George Martin was doing Cheap
Trick's. I called him up in Montserrat and said, "Hey, I'm doing your act, and you're
doing mine," besides, he'd done Aerosmith as well. We brought Rick Nielsen and Bun.
E. Carlos in for "I'm Losing You" - it was fantastic! But it didn't make the
record, because Yoko Ono thought that Rick and Bun were horning in on Lennon. I had to
explain that they were major stars in their own right, and the next day, she still won't
let up because the track didn't have the same sound as the others. So, Lennon told me
something like, "Mother won't allow this," and we had to re-cut the tune. Only
the other guys, great though they were, didn't have it and neither did John. He loved Rick
and Bun E. So, I took a tape of the song from the night before and ran it through the
headphones so the regular guys could get it. The Cheap Trick version finally appeared, on
the Lennon boxed set.
KNAC: Where were you for the rest of the '80s and early '90s?
JD: I did a few things here and there, but after John was shot, I lost a lot of heart. He
was a wonderful guy, funny as hell, smart, witty and so easy to produce, not a prima
donna. And I hated the music of the '80s: new wave, hair metal, synth-pop, makes you want
to puke. I did a Knack record, that kind of thing. So, I got strung out on dope and
watched Monty Python and Fawlty Towers all day!
KNAC: But you just did a new Slash disc?
JD: That I did. Great guitarist, total pro and really great to work with. Slash was really
computer un-friendly at first, but after a while, I couldn't peel him away from the screen
when we were tracking he'd ask, "Have we totally loaded the disc drive, is it backed
up yet?" But deep down, he liked the good old stuff, so we cut with the best set up,
16-inch, two-track tape.
KNAC: Is there pressure on him to kiss and make up and re-do Guns?
JD: Enormous pressure, like 100 million dollars worth. And he's not against it, if Axl
goes back to being the Axl that he loves. Slash isn't using drugs at the moment, but after
11pm or so, he'll morph into the Dean Martin of rock- - "martini time!" He's a
gas. Also the only guy I ever produced who was hauled off by the cops in the middle of a
guitar solo.
KNAC: WHAT?
JD: That's right. Slash had been charged by this crazy girlfriend of his with assault and
had a warrant out. When the cops finally showed up, we expected it. The girlfriend had
caused a major scene already, showed up at my hotel room and demanded to know where he
was. I said nothing, so she talked the clerk into giving up his room number. She finds him
and stabs him with a pencil! After he pushes her off, she charges him with assault!
Anyway, the cops show up in the middle of the session, looking for "Mr. Slash,"
cuffed him and took him away. He had the bail bondsman's number in his teeth at the time,
on a piece of paper. Had him out in no time.
KNAC: How rock and roll, eh?
JD: Totally. He lives for that shit, the edginess.
KNAC: So, who would you love to produce, or have produced, and who have you turned down?
JD: I would have loved to do the Stones or Bowie. I turned Kiss down, you know.
KNAC: Really?
JD: Yeah, to do Destroyer. Bob Ezrin did it and did it really well, but I had no desire to
record them and they were friends of mine, still are. Great show, big production, but
their music does nothing for me. In the end that's all that counts anyway, the music, the
big get-off, ya know what I mean?
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