Response to this site

 From: (Jack Waller)
    Date: Wed, 17 Dec

    The fallout from 1988 has impacted on one of our local charges to the 
    extent that there are 66 identifiable givers in 2 churches, not enough to 
    sustain a full time minister.  I have serious concerns for my Christian 
    brother, as we now have not only to deal with congregational burnout, but 
    fallout from this latest fiasco!  When will it stop?  What are we to do.
    I hear individuals who are disconcerted, yet the pastoral charges are 
    stifled by their clergy.
    I personally know those of us who are in the forefront of visioning (the 
    word renewal is a dirty word to some),and we must be more than tenacious.
    We need a prayer chain, and an umbrella group to forge the links into a 
    chain.  It is not time to despair, but a time to face the millennium with 
    its opportunities and challenges.
    We no longer live in a Christian country, and I saw evidence of that in 
    the secular Christmas concert which was presented in my grandson’s school. 
    It is incumbent upon us to "...train our youth in the way they must go."
    God will give us strength for the journey, as surely as he provided manna 
    in the desert!
    Jack Waller
From: 	Gail Reid[]
Sent: 	December 16, 1997 9:54 PM
Subject: 	Don't leave; stand

Dear Sisters and Brothers in Jesus Christ:
	The representative of the Billy Graham Association spoke directly to
the interdenominational group of ministers in Ottawa: "Your task is to
ensure that Jesus Christ becomes the talking point for all the people in
Ottawa for the next nine months till the Billy Graham Crusade in June." 
As chair of the group listening,  Dr. Allen Churchill, minister at
Dominion-Chalmers United, remembers how they all looked at each other,
wondering how they could do it.  
	"But, in just one week, God used a non-believing press and a
non-believing moderator to make it all possible," said Allen to me
today, talking of the reaction to Bill Phipps’ declaration of faith. In
fact, he believes there may never have been a time when Jesus Christ was
more talked about in a Canadian city.
	I think he is right.  God is working together for good what could bring
us shame and bitterness.  Jesus is being talked about in every United
Church, on the radio, TV, internet, and I just  heard from Tom Bandy
that the Washington Post is doing a story on the moderator etc.
	Nevertheless, there IS a serious, powerful battle going on.  As the
national church has struggled with damage control and the moderator has
tried to use orthodox phrases to declare his faith in a way that would
win back the conservatives, we are left with clergy and laity even more
confused and leaderless.
	Now, perhaps more than since ‘88, we must be very clear about what we
believe.  For those who are in the NACC, we need you more than ever to
hold up the Truth about Jesus Christ and to be a light to those who are
now really searching for who Jesus is.   For those of you who may feel
alone in denominations that are liberal in focus, believe me, they know
who you are and people are looking to you for a strong clear confession
of Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.  Suddenly, I am no longer getting
glazed looks when I speak up.  People are listening as never before.
	There are many congregations and individuals who have had nothing to do
with any of the renewal groups who have been shocked by the moderator’s
statements and are looking for leadership.  Some are inquiring about the
Alliance, some are calling the Community of Concern.  We have had calls
at Fellowship asking for direction and copies of the Basis of Union.  On
one day we had 29 calls.
	I believe we must be faithful where we are.  Now is not the time to
quit or be discouraged, but to draw closer to Jesus and to be the
lighthouse for so many in our church who now realize they are
leaderless.  They realize that they are confused and lacking in the
understanding of what they believe about their faith.  They realize that
their commitment to social action has lost its core.  They are asking
questions.  They are suspicious of the answers.  They are sheep without
a shepherd.  May God give us the courage and the words to love them and
point to the only true Shepherd who can save them.
	I want to thank all of you for being out there, small lights and bigger
ones, across the nation and our United Church.  It means a great deal to
me to know you are there in your small corner.  Be assured, there are
many believers in other denominations who are praying for us.
	Have a joyous Christmas as you shine for Jesus.
Gail Reid
Fellowship Magazine


Sent: 	December 20, 1997 12:29 PM
Subject: 	Moderator, WWW, and Alpha
To the UCCANCHAT group:           
By Tony Copple

I'm author of one of the moderator sites
( which includes a chronology
of the debate, and invites and publishes feedback. 
Initially the feedback came as a result of the site being
mentioned by Bob Harvey, the Ottawa Citizen columnist who
broke this story.  More recently, I have included material
sent in by the e-mail forum of like-minded folk who will be
receiving this message.  So the first thing to say is: if
you have a problem with my publishing your writings on the
web, please let me know by reply to this message and I'll
respect that. 

I fully support Brian Wilkie's initiative in encouraging an
internet forum for a more Jesus-oriented concept within
the UC than is reflected by General Council and Mr Phipps. 
I believe that Mark Fearnall's site and my site can be used
as outreaches from the forum, accessible to everybody. I
encourage you to publicize the sites to your friends within
and without the UC.   I would welcome more pro-Phipps
comment right now, just to keep us on our toes.  As author,
I have the power to put up my own views any time, and since
I am fairly frank, you may often disagree, in which case I
would greatly appreciate feedback however negative.   I am a
lay person, and painfully aware of my capacity for confusion.

However, Jesus is my Lord and I'll follow Him any way my
heart tells me.  He brought me to a recent "Alpha" course
here in Kanata, Ontario.  Had it not been for Alpha I doubt
I would have had the conviction to become engaged in this
debate.  I want to commend the Alpha movement to everyone
who reads this message.   
Visit   which will also link you to
the Alpha headquarters in UK.  There are more than 4000
Alpha courses running in UK alone, and it's spreading
worldwide fast.   It is interdenominational and endorsed by
church leaders from UC (Tom Bandy) to RC (Cardinal Williams,
NZ).   It certainly is Jesus-oriented and I'll be very
interested to compare it with "Reconciling and Making New -
Who is Jesus for the World Today" which I'll be taking soon,
simultaneously with taking a leadership role in my second
Alpha course.  After each Wednesday Apha, I couldn't wait
for the next one, and I suffered withdrawal symptoms when it

Sooner or later someone will invite you to attend an Alpha
course.  Wherever you are on your faith journey, it will
move you several rungs up the ladder. Bishops, pastors, lay
members of congregations, and non-Christians curious about Christ
all take Alpha together and it is a richer experience for the
variety.  Make the time to go to the introductory evening, and
you'll know then whether you should attend the 10 weeks (one
evening a week plus one Saturday).  I believe that if you, as
leaders, take Alpha, and then bring it to your churches, we can
in a relatively short time change the current direction of
General Council, and make a huge difference to our Church.  

Blessings to you all this Christmas time, in Jesus' name
Tony Copple 


From: 	Don Anderson[]
Sent: 	December 13, 1997 9:03 PM
Subject: 	response change

Anyone notice that Executive of General Council has edited their
response (probably an oversight in preparing wed page?) the next day?

Added "section 511(a) of The Manual and" to the first line after "Role
of the Moderator".


Footnote by Tony Copple

Today (Dec 23) I finally received my audiotape copy of the November 7
conference call between Bill Phipps and about ten callers including myself.
It makes interesting listening and touches many of the key points of debate.
Admittedly all ten were critical, but they were articulately so.  If you know
anyone who was on the call, try and listen to a copy of the tape. I will be
providing a copy to my minister, the chair of the Ottawa Presbytery, Brian
Copeland, at his request.  Send $5 to cover costs and you can have one too.
61 Highmont Court, Kanata, On., K2T 1B2.  It is not to be broadcast.