by Tony Copple

Correspondence with people whose opinions I value very highly.

March 1 2004
To the Editor of The Economist In response to their cover article: "The case for gay marriage", Feb 28, 2004

The case against gay marriage: itís wrong.

In todayís world, even Economist columnists appear to have grown up without sufficient exposure to the major bastion of our culture Ė the Bible. Thousands of years ago society devised a satisfactory system for companionship and fulfillment called marriage, designed for two from opposite sexes. In the past ten years, as gays have got bolder, we are now proposing to throw out the system that has worked so well. Indeed, when other groups such as the Roman Empire, male-only schools, and prisons let gay behaviour develop unrestrained, those societies perished or slip into degradation.

Iíll vote for gays to be accepted, befriended, given appropriate benefits. Marriage - or blessings - in church or out - are for heterosexuals. Equality of treatment is not valid here, since men and women are different.

Yours faithfully
Tony Copple

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Sep 13, 2003
Dear Anna Maria,
On August 13, you had an interview with a Unitarian minister who argued that the Bible does not approve gay marriages, but it does not forbid them either.
I am an engineer and a mathematician who does not believe in God to whom we can pray or receive direct favours. However I had been raised as a Christian with a good knowledge of the Bible. It insulted me how someone can twist what is written in any book -- not from the religious point of view but from the view of pure logic. Here are excerpts from the Contemporary English Bible:
Leviticus 18.22 : It's disgusting for a man to have a sex with another man.
Leviticus 20:13: It's disgusting for a man to have a sex with another man, and those who do will be put to death as they deserve.
Romans 1 26-32: Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way, and they did things with each other that were not natural. Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men. They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds.
I do not advocate that gays should be killed, but since this is what the Bible says, the question of the gay marriage is irrelevant.

To put things in a historical perspective:
The Old Testament (Leviticus) is concerned with the Jews taking over the decadent habits of Egyptions. The New Testament is concerned with Christians following morals of then temporary Rome.
In both cases, the conflict is between a new aggressive society where a growth and high birth rate are favoured, and between a collapsing civilization on the verge of its own destruction.
Sorry to write so long after your program was aired, but I was travelling and needed time to get the facts together.
Best regards, Jiri

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1 July 2003
On 11 June 2003 The court of appeal challenged the federal government of Canada by instantly legalizing homosexual marriage, and the government has accepted this decision from an unelected body created at least in part by patronage. Apparently they applied the logic of the Charter of Rights, which says that all groups should be treated equally and fairly, so homosexuals should be treated in the same way as heterosexuals.

During my childhood I discovered (with some fascination) that I was not equal to girls, and later in life I have noticed that God had a good reason for the ways he designed us - male and female - who would marry and have children. Suggesting that homosexuals be encouraged to marry breaks the fundamental rules of that design. To treat the group in equality with heterosexuals is as flawed as it would be to insist that males and females visit each others' public toilets or that men and women should all wear unisex clothes. "Vive le difference" say the French.

The theory of evolution suggests that nature supports the survival of the fittest and those who can be beneficial to the species. It has appropriately arranged that there would be no progeny from homosexuals. You may ask why God would create homosexuals. The sins of the forefathers are visited on future generations; to the 10th generation in this case.

The Netherlands and Belgium have led the way in recognizing homosexual marriage and Canada wants to follow. I foresee Canada's becoming the gay wedding destination for America (and they can smoke pot legally when they get here). Is this the image we seek for our beloved country? We have protected the rights of pedophiles so the prognosis is not good. While I don't want the government in my bedroom, neither do I promote heterosexuality, so I don't want to listen to homosexuals promoting their lifestyles in gay parades. I particularly don't want to see men kissing men or women kissing women on TV - it makes me nauseous.

The US will not enact similar legislation because George Bush in particular is guided by God's laws (none of us are perfect followers) and makes no secret of the fact, and the US population as a whole still knows what the Bible says, and are rightly less concerned about the sensibilities of non-Christians. Canada's politicians seem to believe that speaking out for God's rules is politically incorrect. They have fostered an atmosphere where promoting religion or religious values is not vote-catching. They are forgetting that the whole of our civilization is based on the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount.

The motivation of homosexuals to marry is at least partly influenced by the gaining of pension and other financial rights by a survivor. As a taxpayer I have a problem with that.

Should homosexuals marry? 67% said "no" in a June 17, 2003 National Post poll.

- Tony Copple

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June 5, 2001
Hello! Am sending you this interesting article.
Dr. Robert Spitzer - Study on homosexual orientation change
Psychiatrist Robert Spitzer played a key role in the 1973 American Psychiatric Assoc. decision to stop diagnosing homosexuality as a mental disorder- which was a major step towards the acceptance of homosexuality as a "normal" lifestyle. Spitzer is chief of Biometrics Research and Professor of Psychiatry at Columbia Univ., New York

On May 9/01 Dr. Spitzer released the results of a study of former homosexuals who have changed their orientation through "reparative therapy." This was presented as a paper at the annual meeting of the American Psychiatric Association. The release was carried that day in prominent American newspapers - Washington Post, USA Today, New York Times, etc- plus on many top news websites - foxnews.com, cbsnews.com, abcnews.go.com, msnbc.com, etc Spitzer also was featured that day on Good Morning, America.

In the study, Spitzer interviewed 200 former homosexuals who claim to have been set free from homosexuality.

Just prior to the release of the results of Spitzer's study, the Board of Directors of the American Assoc. of Social Workers, representing 155,000 social workers, adopted a statement condemning all therapies which seek to change a person's sexual orientation. In 1997, the American Psychologial Assoc. adopted the same position.

This is becoming a real battleground! Homosexuals don't want the opportunity for change of sexual orientation to even be OFFERED, for those who want this.

We have much the same situation in the United Church. In all the discussion over this issue, the change experienced by many former homosexuals is not even mentioned. We are not even TRYING to learn more about the resources which are available for those who WANT help in this.

- Carole Burton

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June 9, 1998
From Laurie-Ann

Hi T
.....Anyways, back to the holiness issue - it is that which is the acid test when it comes to holy lifestyles. I have to say that I was disappointed when I read your stand on homosexuality - and will not harp on you about it. But one thing I will say that I do know - of course God loves them, that's not the point. And I am not rejecting you for your present stand.

Here's my point -
Unholy living is evil - no matter how we mask it - and no matter what form it is in. We as Christians are even to abstain from the appearance of evil, lest we cause others to stumble.

And to reconcile good and evil by saying that God accepts and condones unholy acts is NOT love - it is sentimentality. Leanne Payne talks about this in a Pastoral Care Ministry School I went to in 1995. There can be no compromises. This is not opinion - it is a call to holiness.

Mind you, the Lord is ever patient with all of us - as I well know from my own life. I am forever thanking him for his patience with me in the areas where I struggle - like the lack of trust in God about finances, and the future. So basically, a call to holiness is a call to holiness. And his ways are not ours.

I hope I haven't scared you with my prophetic preach - I've had this on my heart to share with you for a while - but didn't know if it was the right time. I am not calling for a change of opinion - just to point to holiness, like the prophetic person I am.

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May 2004...
Since writing the letter below, I feel I should give additional comment here. Firstly, in 1999 I married the woman who wrote the letter above, though at the time of the letter we were new e-pen pals. Secondly, after studying the subject in more depth, I am now a less inclined to the view that most homosexuals are born with homosexual tendencies, and more inclined to the view that many have learned - been taught - to be so, encouraged by other homosexuals (who may well be family, ie. same-sex couples), and made to feel less closeted by the powerful homosexual lobby which is changing society today. In fact I am very concerned that the family and traditional marriage are under seige and the inevitable result will be to the detriment of society.

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From: tonyc@ncf.ca
Sent: March 23, 1998 4:30 PM
To: cburton@nf.sympatico.ca
Subject: Your letter

Thank you Carole for your letter by Mario Bergner. It makes very interesting reading.
For me, however (and I am heterosexual), I remain unconvinced that it is right that the huge numbers of homosexuals in the world (always have been) should somehow be induced to a straight lifestyle. It reminds me of telling left handers they must learn to switch - the Latin for left handed is sinister - as was done to many children.
Obviously for some, such as Mario, the right route for them is prayerfully to become straight. I don't know that the logical projection of this is that all of them should. I can't believe they were all creation mistakes. I prefer to believe God has a plan for them, and I absolutely believe their love is no less valid than heterosexual love, and in many cases may be more long lasting. Jesus said "Love one another". He didn't say "Love only someone of the opposite sex". There has to be a reason we are created capable of homosexuality.
- Tony


The Problems with Bill-250 by John Pacheco, The Catholic League, 11 Apr 2004
Same-sex Blessings
Exodus
Primates meet with Exodus leaders
Free to be me - youth oriented
God's alternatives to same-sex relationships - Sermon by Rev. Tom Anderst, 16 Nov 03
Gay Conversion - morality or bigotry?
New Direction for Life Ministries of Canada, now in Ottawa, tel (613) 835-9184
Our Gay Future by David Warren, 5 October 2003, National Post
Why I Walked by J I Packer, Christianity Today, Jan 2003

Matters of Faith